Curse

TheRaven · Mar 24, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Something needs to be done about the leechers in FOW/UW. With the new chest rewards these areas have become more popular and unfortunately they are popular for the leechers as well.

This weekend, I joined a FOW HM clearing pug. After we cleared the tower of courage one guy went afk and didn't return. After we cleared the forge area he ran to the forgemaster and stayed there taunting us while we continued to clear. At one point while he was still afk, we tried to get his character killed but he bragged that he does this all the time and knew exactly where to stand so that teams can't kill him.

We all reported him, but since the "leeching" option has been removed for PvE, it's basically a lost cause.

Here's my idea. It's not perfect but it's a starting point and I hope Anet will implement it in some form. Even if they cannot do this for GW, please consider it for GW2.

- If a player has been inactive or non-contributing for 30 minutes, they are auto removed from the instance. (Auto time out)
- Inactive is defined as using no attacks/skills against enemies and no skills on allies.
- If a player is the only human in the instance (full h/h team or solo'ing) then this timeout does not apply and will never activate.
- Add the "leech" option to the pve /report. If the entire team (except the leech) reports a player for leeching and if and only if the leecher has been inactive for more than 15 minutes then they are removed from the instance.
- Perhaps the same inactive option could also be enabled in Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry and Alliance Battles except with a timeout of 5 minutes instead.

Pros:
- Stops the leechers. If they aren't contributing then they do not receive the rewards.

Cons:
- What about runner's customers? Are there any runs that take more than 30 minutes. If so the runnee will need to "contribute" in some way at least once every 30 minutes.
- A leecher could also run to the team once every half hour and cast a small heal. Of course you could also use this opportunity to kill the leecher.

GWEXTREEMFAN · Mar 24, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

sounds good i really hate leechers they really go on my nerves

and in the end they even get insulting that's when it really over does it

so good idea raven

ps: self heal (heal sig...) what about them?

lilbubba829 · Mar 24, 2008, 12:52 PM // 12:52

I strongly agree that you should be able to report leechers in any mission (not random roaming) because very often I find that when I'm in a team of 8, it magically becomes 6 because two people go afk even after promising they'll be there, so essentially they get free runs. I haven't been to FOW since the new items were introduced but I can only imagine that it caused all those people to go there, although before that I never had any go afk during FOW because most people wanted the drops.

I kind of see where you're going when you say inactive, but I'm not sure how easy that would be to implement nor can I see that always working. What if the group decides to take a 15 minute food break or restroom break or something? I never paid much attention to amount time but I do know that a lot of times groups I've been in take breaks. Also, to further complicate the system, I'm pretty sure pets are considered allies so all they'll need to do is bring a pet and then the leecher can bypass this.

Perhaps if you get the entire team to report someone for leeching it can kick them out? I think that's the best system to use. Good idea though.

De Maximoff · Mar 24, 2008, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I agree something needs to be done about leechers in PVE, especially FOW and UW.

/signed

Ghostcell · Mar 24, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

/signed

something needs to be done, but they need to make it so that it doesn't effect people paying for services such as missions and vanquishing.
maybe at 30 mins or something there should be a command that the party enters to kick the player, or the majority of the party or something along those lines.

Miska Bow · Mar 24, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Even if i always play with guilg/alliance/friends i agree with you.

/signed

Azreal911 · Mar 24, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Yeah i wish there was a way to kick them out of the group back to town at least. It's bad enough we're short handed it's even worse that they get to walk right in to collect their prize after all that clearing we've been through. I've been pretty much H/H everything cause of this annoyance because my heroes and henchies NEVER go afk and always work. On the rare occasion i'll go with pugs cause I needed a change in pace but that's for missions not fow and uw which i think would really suck with one afk much less two!

ernestosilva · Mar 24, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

I agre with reporting leechers, and if the all team report the same person she is kicked.

I don't agree with the 30 minutes rule, I only do FoW, UW, Deep, Urgoz, DoA, etc with my guild and most of the time I have to go afk to dinner or something, and sometimes it takes more than 30 minutes. And my guildies also takes more than 30 minutes afk sometimes.

N1ghtstalker · Mar 24, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

/signed
it should so that if a player is afk or does nothing for a small amount of time the team could vote for him to be kicked from the game then
i asked Gaile yesterday and she said something about: Imagine a player getting a gold dropped and the team suddenly needs him to be kicked immediatly.
we have to make sure that doesn't happen too

fearfactory · Mar 24, 2008, 01:56 PM // 13:56

It's happening a lot in CoF runs now. People are going afk right near the end of the run making the runner either quit with no earnings, or finish the run for free for them. Then the leecher will just wait till everyone leaves the game and take all his drops/etc.

TheRaven · Mar 24, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Wow, thx for the support guys. This being guru, I was expecting 2 signs and 10 "suck it up and live with it" flames.

To answer a few of the replies:

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilbubba829

What if the group decides to take a 15 minute food break or restroom break or something? I never paid much attention to amount time but I do know that a lot of times groups I've been in take breaks. Also, to further complicate the system, I'm pretty sure pets are considered allies so all they'll need to do is bring a pet and then the leecher can bypass this.

1. How often do groups take 30 min breaks? I understand that 10-15 minutes breaks are fairly common especially on multi-hour missions, but personally I've never seen a group agree to a 30 min break.
2. Don't count spells on pets or other allies as "active". Player must actively use a skill against an enemy or other party member to remain in active status.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernestosilva

I don't agree with the 30 minutes rule, I only do FoW, UW, Deep, Urgoz, DoA, etc with my guild and most of the time I have to go afk to dinner or something, and sometimes it takes more than 30 minutes. And my guildies also takes more than 30 minutes afk sometimes.

Hmmm, I have mixed opinions on this. On the one hand, if you leave for 30+ minutes to have dinner then really you are leeching and shouldn't have come on the mission to start with. However since it's with guildies you can get away with it. Try that with a pug and you'll end up with a lot of angry teammates.

However I can see situations where a 30+ minute afk is acceptable. Perhaps one afternoon you and a friend want to clear uw with your heroes. You both start and 2 hours later you both need to leave for real life reasons. You agree to leave the game on and you'll both meet back at 7pm to finish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostcell

maybe at 30 mins or something there should be a command that the party enters to kick the player, or the majority of the party or something along those lines.

This is probably the best solution to the above problem. The majority of the rest of the party needs to vote to kick. However this option has it's own problems. Your team has a leecher in uw. Nothing you can do about it and you go on your way fighting thru the quests. At the 30 minute mark you're in an intense battle against the 4 horseman and all of a sudden a popup box appears asking you to kick the leecher. ACCCKKK party wipe due to the distraction. The 30 minute vote needs to be unobtrustive (perhaps the leecher's name starts flashing in the party window and you click to bring up a vote box)

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

i asked Gaile yesterday and she said something about: Imagine a player getting a gold dropped and the team suddenly needs him to be kicked immediatly.
we have to make sure that doesn't happen too

I agree. I have that in my OP. The team cannot vote to kick until a person has been inactive at least 15 minutes. By that time he should have picked up the nice drop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearfactory

It's happening a lot in CoF runs now. People are going afk right near the end of the run making the runner either quit with no earnings, or finish the run for free for them. Then the leecher will just wait till everyone leaves the game and take all his drops/etc.

Yet another reason to implement this. Although in CoF the leech could just randomly heal the runner until everyone leaves.

[Morkai] · Mar 24, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Yeah a nice idea, however:

Inactive is defined as using no attacks/skills against enemies and no skills on allies.

What about 600/Smite...

Maybe no movement for 30 mins..

TheRaven · Mar 24, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berek

Yeah a nice idea, however:

Inactive is defined as using no attacks/skills against enemies and no skills on allies.

What about 600/Smite...

Maybe no movement for 30 mins..

No movement wouldn't work. Our leech was moving. He ran from the tower of courage at the start area to the forge. He also ran around and picked up unwanted drops in the immediate area of the forge. He was moving, but he was still leeching.

Explain what you mean about the 600/smite. I haven't run that build a lot myself, but I thought the smiter was actively using skills on the 600. That would count towards keeping him active. Or were you referring to the customers that the 600/smite team are running? In that case the vote kick option is the best and we'll assume that the runners will not vote to kick the paying customers.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 24, 2008, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

1. How often do groups take 30 min breaks? I understand that 10-15 minutes breaks are fairly common especially on multi-hour missions, but personally I've never seen a group agree to a 30 min break.
2. Don't count spells on pets or other allies as "active". Player must actively use a skill against an enemy or other party member to remain in active status.

Well my guild often takes 30+ minute breaks to do tihngs such as putting children to bed or other real life reasons. A time out of any form is a bad idea as it caters to the thoughts of the person who created the idea. You don't think peopel take 30min+ breaks but other people might do it often without affecting team members. Another couple in my alliance play the two of them with heroes, i know they often start a mission and go off together then come back later.

Leeching in PvE is a tricky situation to handle andf a auto time-out is not the way to go about it. team kicking is just as bad because of how easily it could be exploited.

romeus petrus · Mar 24, 2008, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Don't do elite missions with pugs, problem solved.

gameshoes3003 · Mar 24, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Okay, I like this idea but the cons that you stated make it pretty easy to get around it.
But, as people stated, "what if I'm out for 30 minutes?"
I think that the group should be able to vote that "so-and-so" is not a leecher.
So you're doing a thing with your guild and your mom decides you to help with groceries, which then leads into cleaning the house, which then leads into helping prepare dinner, etc. You're team who is hopefully empathetic will vote that you're not a leecher.

OR!!!!!
If the 30 timer goes by, a little thing in the chat box will appear saying, "So-and-so has been inactive for the past 30 minutes, type in /leecher if this person is indeed active or /safe to clear the person of the accusation."

But yeah.................................... hmm......

Kanyatta · Mar 24, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Ok.

The thing about Guild Wars is... it's a VIDEO GAME! Ok, so he leeched off you and got what? 6 Shards? And what are shards redeemable for? 3k ea? What is 18k redeemable for IRL? Nothing. So, what has he effectively scammed off of your party? Nothing.

crazybanshee · Mar 24, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

I agree, I've done fow a number of times where someone just buggers off and does nothing. I even had someone say one time (about half way through) "Hey I have some stuff to do I'm just gonna park here and get the end chest later when you guys are done"

On the flip side of the coin there was one time I had to go afk, was gone for like 20 minutes (my sister brought her dog over, got into a fight with my dog, blood everywhere) and I know the people in my group were starting to be irritated about it but when I came back I apologized profusely and told them to split whatever drops I'd gotten while I was gone, so I know that can happen for emergency reasons too

So I agree there should be some sort of option like in pvp, where if everyone in the party reports you as a leecher, and you've been outside the area of the rest of the party (ie your name is grey to them) for 10 or 20 minutes then you get kicked. This would at least cut down on people who just stand there and self heal or whatever, while not allowing people to kick someone who just got an uber drop.

Darkobra · Mar 24, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Ok.

The thing about Guild Wars is... it's a VIDEO GAME! Ok, so he leeched off you and got what? 6 Shards? And what are shards redeemable for? 3k ea? What is 18k redeemable for IRL? Nothing. So, what has he effectively scammed off of your party? Nothing.

And remember, kids: Morality ends in a game!

ImperialPriest · Mar 24, 2008, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Ok.

The thing about Guild Wars is... it's a VIDEO GAME! Ok, so he leeched off you and got what? 6 Shards? And what are shards redeemable for? 3k ea? What is 18k redeemable for IRL? Nothing. So, what has he effectively scammed off of your party? Nothing.

He just scammed you for 1+ hours of your time. And how much is time worth in real life? Everything.

/Signed